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Post by Lu Bu on Oct 8, 2008 5:28:14 GMT -6
Hahaha To make the site and topic intresting I put that there so what are your ideas?
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Post by Hay-Lin on Oct 8, 2008 11:23:18 GMT -6
Wow........I dunno *thinks*
They're all good, I mean it. I'll have to think about this first. Hahaha!
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Post by Lu Bu on Oct 8, 2008 16:40:46 GMT -6
Yeah I agree they are too hard
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Post by britney on Oct 8, 2008 21:30:21 GMT -6
How will I ever choose?
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Post by Lu Bu on Oct 9, 2008 8:08:54 GMT -6
it is a hard decision indeed but I expected it too...
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Post by Guan Yu on Oct 9, 2008 11:18:21 GMT -6
The best dynasty would probably gone to Liu Bei....i mean he came from the current royal family, so he had a good mindset about what was expected of him as an emporer.
Also if you look at the others, Wu....the sun family was too proud for their own good. They would have been at war with the Mongols more than China was in the first place, also they knew little on the northern border agreements of the time due to their base in the south. Wei...Cao Cao would have been ok, but his son was too bloodthirsty, and in turn made the Sima family (whom eventually won out) nothing more than a band of backstabbing egomaniacs, Which is what Jin was for the most part.
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Post by scholar on Oct 9, 2008 14:55:15 GMT -6
Well if you want my opinion I would have gone with Liu Xie. Just instead of Ts'ao Ts'ao coming along I would have had him stay in the north with Zhang Yang and then instead move to Yuan Shao. That would have lead the Han Line to a lasting period. It really would have, there is nothing to suggest anything to the contrary.
People look on Liu Xie with disdain as nothing but a puppet. The reason why Bian was taken in place of Xie was simply because he was the eldest. Some sources put Ling trying to get Xie instead of Bian. It's all unknown though, novel propaganda I suppose.
Liu Xie was known to be a bright child at a young age. He resisted many many things. Bian wouldn't have. When Liu Xie was in a small period in the north after fleeing from Li Jue and Guo Si then by all means if Yuan Shao or Zhang Yang took the opportunity then there would have been a long lasting Han.
Reasons:
Yuan Shao was known with fame as a real Han General, though wanting Liu Yu to take the place of emperor he would never have became a King, there for would never have had the chance to be emperor.
Yuan Shao's sons though petty and would try desperately over the emperor would have fought over him and then with one prevailing over the other Xi would have kept it steady and Shang would not become emperor. Assuming Tan won, which is rather unlikely then we would have a very unstable relationship. Xie would support Xi over Tan and some officers will throw a Coup, now Xi was timid and heavily filial. He may kill the people who put him in the spot but he would not refuse if Tan died. Shang would look to Xi for support with everything. The only way Shang gets to be King is if Shang kills his brother. That I don't think would happen.
Cao Cao though strong in the south attracted great men because he had the emperor. He got a few based on reputation but Yuan Shao was ten times greater. Not only would it give Shao resolve but Cao Cao would not be able to stop him.
Cao Cao may never even have taken half of the central plains. Remember many lords surrendered based on him having the emperor or after a decisive victory where he used the emperor to win. Though he would still have his Qing Elite.
Liu Bei would never be a true threat. In fact he would probably surrender.
Sun Ce would never attack the north so hastily and would probably try to consolidate his power leaving him lacking in the department that Quan gave the territory after his death. He would end up being estranged from the people and would fall victim to the eventual march south. Especially since Shao had many many troops loyal to him.
Liu Biao was an "armchair strategist" as much as I don't like using the novel in these cases he really was. He was content with his territory, being a staunch ally of Yuan Shao he would have kept his lands. the talent of Xu Shu, Pan Tong, and Zhuge Liang would be wasted. Jin may try but Zhuge and the rest would remain hidden.
Liu Zhang was weak, power in force but weak over all. He would fall.
Zhang Lu is one force i would rather like to have stayed flourishing throughout the period however if he loses he would be executed and the supposed Tao line that came after him would be extinguished.
Ma Teng would rebel, fail, and die. He was no loyal man, not as the novel would have him.
The talent Sima Yi would never have made it because Yuan Shao would not force a man into office. He may have had him executed if he didn't show.
I would say the Han Line would last quite a few years yet if this happened. It was the Sima who united and then fragmented. If The Yuan did this then it would have united, but fragmented would not have been as devastating. Surely there was not as many sons as the Sima family.
The only real threat that I can't see happening that much would be Yuan Shu, if he kills his cousin then we have a problem. If he doesn't we have an even bigger one. The Yuan Line would be of no use if Shu gets killed. Call me crazy but there are rules against being unfilial. Killing a real Yuan in place of an adopted Yuan to be head is off. He kills him it brings doubt to the other Yuans there were thousands of them. Not so much in great power such as his sons would be but enough to get Shao in some trouble. If he doesn't then we would have his ever present threat of rebellion. We will never know though.
Zhang Lu seems pretty good too.
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Post by Hay-Lin on Oct 9, 2008 22:41:57 GMT -6
Wow! That's alot of info! You really know your stuff huh?
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Post by scholar on Oct 10, 2008 23:47:47 GMT -6
Wow! That's alot of info! You really know your stuff huh? Yeah, it's how I roll.
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Post by Hay-Lin on Oct 11, 2008 8:46:24 GMT -6
Hahaha! I can tell.
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Post by britney on Oct 11, 2008 9:10:54 GMT -6
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Post by Lu Bu on Oct 14, 2008 6:15:17 GMT -6
well I will follow my inspiration that is Lu Bu I would help him out
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Post by britney on Oct 14, 2008 19:41:06 GMT -6
Of course! That's why ur Lu Bu on youtube
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Post by Lu Bu on Oct 14, 2008 20:00:33 GMT -6
and why I am here too
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Post by britney on Oct 14, 2008 20:06:32 GMT -6
haha lol
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