Post by Tau Commander on Nov 25, 2008 0:31:12 GMT -6
The Sanadas didn't support Ieyasu and listened to Mitsunari. Masayuki allowed marriage with Tokugawa thus aligning to them via that. They tried to gamble with their family member by one supporting Ieyasu while the others didn't to make sure that their clan survive no matter what the outcome. Ieyasu doesn't like the Sanadas because they were indecisive. If they can do such thing now, they might do even worse if they go unpunished. Let say that Ieyasu spared them like some daimyo and reduced their lands, they will surely rise against Ieyasu one day as some did at Osaka. Ieyasu saw them as future rebels thus punished them in that way. Despite their lives were spared, the Sanadas were ungrateful and returned at Osaka so Ieyasu made sure that won't return as he wiped them out at Osaka.
Shimazu didn't join the fight even after Mitsunari gave them the signal. Like I said that, they didn't decide to join the battle despite said that they will help. It was Naomasa that charged them and forced them to make the only choice they have which is to fight. Indeed you mentioned those who risked their lives and died fighting on the Western side but what about those who did fight when they supposed to. I just said not all risked their live to back my claim that some people were forced to submit to Hideyoshi's rule.
I know about the deployment. If the Mori really wants to risk their lives and fight for the cause of the Toyotomi, they would certainly, charged into Kobayakawa ranks even on the verge of defeat.
That's true.
Compulsory. They are future rebels and Ieyasu did the right thing. Mitsunari's father commited suicide.
The gunshots were signal to remind Kobayakawa that it's time for him to act. Kobayakawa couldn't be scared just by some gunshots. Ieyasu grabbibg his chance & luckly it worked??? Great commander like him don't gamble chances. Ieyasu is good at planning and executing his moves. Kobayakawa supported the guy who backed him.
Sekigahara was a result of Hideyoshi ordering the suicide of his nephew, Hidetsugu, shortly after the birth of Hideyori. Hideyoshi feared that a struggle might break out over succession, so he had Hidetsugu removed, ensuring Hideyori would be the sole choice of successor. Unfortunately, his plan back-fired as he died not too long after, with Hideyori being far too young to rule for himself. This led to the whole "Regents and Counselors" situation where several powerful daimyo were placed in positions of influence. It was only natural that they'd soon turn on each other. Even the Korean Campaing did some damage to the Toyotomi (I'm not discussing about the campaign but adding some information to my point above).
Who was Ieyasu a traitor to? Hideyoshi- the man who brushed aside Nobunaga's rightful heir(s)? Funny how Ieyasu actually supported one as the rightful successor, only for Hideyoshi to take power for himself.
And, with the Edo period, Japan had quite the era of peace. It was the boost needed after Ashikaga Takauji and his more capable descendants died, which launched Japan into a time of cultural and social development.
The Meiji revolution/Restoration, which overthrew the Tokugawa bakafu, was fueled more by imperial loyalties and sonnoi ji rather than any corruption on Yoshinobu's part. He had even begun the reform needed to bring power to Japan, but this was stopped with the Restoration.
Execuse me? Yoshihiro Shimazu's son died on sekigahara battlefield; Kiyooki Shima, Yoshisugu Otani died on battlefield; Ekei Ankekuji, Yukinaga Konishi, and Mitsunari Ishida was caught and executed. Is their actions not proven risking their lives or what?
Shimazu didn't join the fight even after Mitsunari gave them the signal. Like I said that, they didn't decide to join the battle despite said that they will help. It was Naomasa that charged them and forced them to make the only choice they have which is to fight. Indeed you mentioned those who risked their lives and died fighting on the Western side but what about those who did fight when they supposed to. I just said not all risked their live to back my claim that some people were forced to submit to Hideyoshi's rule.
I know about the deployment. If the Mori really wants to risk their lives and fight for the cause of the Toyotomi, they would certainly, charged into Kobayakawa ranks even on the verge of defeat.
Hideaki Kobayakawa didn't get what he deserves, in fact he went mad and died of sickness;
That's true.
Eliminating the whole clan of Mitsunari Ishida, which is not necessary so
Compulsory. They are future rebels and Ieyasu did the right thing. Mitsunari's father commited suicide.
If this is full planning along as you've said, why did Ieyasu has to send a couple of times, even life threatening Kobayakawa Hideaki with rifles? Ieyasu was grabbing his chances, and LUCKILY it work. Hideaki Kobayakawa was a mindless head and couldn't decide which sides is he on until the Ieyasu's "fire" mind you, that is not a signal fire. It is quite easy for an old veteran to twiddle with the minds of a youngster who has no war experience.
The gunshots were signal to remind Kobayakawa that it's time for him to act. Kobayakawa couldn't be scared just by some gunshots. Ieyasu grabbibg his chance & luckly it worked??? Great commander like him don't gamble chances. Ieyasu is good at planning and executing his moves. Kobayakawa supported the guy who backed him.
He has been plotting these years eliminating the Toyotomi from within and the other discontent daimyos right from the beginning after Hideyoshi's death.
Sekigahara was a result of Hideyoshi ordering the suicide of his nephew, Hidetsugu, shortly after the birth of Hideyori. Hideyoshi feared that a struggle might break out over succession, so he had Hidetsugu removed, ensuring Hideyori would be the sole choice of successor. Unfortunately, his plan back-fired as he died not too long after, with Hideyori being far too young to rule for himself. This led to the whole "Regents and Counselors" situation where several powerful daimyo were placed in positions of influence. It was only natural that they'd soon turn on each other. Even the Korean Campaing did some damage to the Toyotomi (I'm not discussing about the campaign but adding some information to my point above).
Who was Ieyasu a traitor to? Hideyoshi- the man who brushed aside Nobunaga's rightful heir(s)? Funny how Ieyasu actually supported one as the rightful successor, only for Hideyoshi to take power for himself.
And, with the Edo period, Japan had quite the era of peace. It was the boost needed after Ashikaga Takauji and his more capable descendants died, which launched Japan into a time of cultural and social development.
The Meiji revolution/Restoration, which overthrew the Tokugawa bakafu, was fueled more by imperial loyalties and sonnoi ji rather than any corruption on Yoshinobu's part. He had even begun the reform needed to bring power to Japan, but this was stopped with the Restoration.